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KP Unpacked
Join serial entrepreneur KP Reddy for conversations and discussions around innovation, technology trends, and AI for startup founders, innovation catalysts & investors focused on the built environment (and beyond!)
KP Unpacked
The Room Where It Happens
What if the future of architecture and the built environment lies in breaking free from traditional molds? Discover the transformative potential of our Mastermind meetups and the Catalyst Network, which bring together trailblazers from the AEC and tech sectors for groundbreaking collaboration. We draw inspiration from Hamilton, urging innovators to take an active role in shaping the world around them.
Tune in to understand how embracing change can lead to innovation and success in a rapidly evolving landscape.
To read the original post on LinkedIn and connect with KP, go here:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kpreddy_catalyst-network-activity-7273763793845772288-f9G8?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop
Ready to level up your strategy and solve shared challenges with industry leaders? Join us for a one-day Mastermind meetup on February 25th in Phoenix, arizona. These quarterly meetups are your chance to collaborate with top minds from AEC and tech industries and explore innovation strategies that can transform your business. Experience firsthand what our Mastermind program is all about connecting with peers, tackling shared challenges and gaining insights you can't get anywhere else. Each meetup is hosted in a new city, bringing fresh perspectives and unmatched networking opportunities. Don't miss out. Visit kpreadyco slash events to learn more and secure your limited spot at a Mastermind meetup. Today you are listening to KP Unpacked with KP Ready a weekly dose of insights for innovators and startups from the built environment and beyond. Want more discussions like this? Join KP's exclusive online community, the Catalyst Network, to learn more. Visit kpreadyco slash Catalyst Network To learn more.
Speaker 2:Visit kpreadyco slash Catalyst Network. Welcome back to KP Unpacked. My name is Jeff Eccles, I'm a senior advisor at KP Ready Company and this is my opportunity to ask KP Ready about his LinkedIn post. This is the only opportunity that I get to say hey, kp, what were you thinking? As usual, I am joined by the CEO and founder of both. Got the co instead of both the CEO and founder of Shadow Ventures and KP Ready Company. Kp, welcome back.
Speaker 3:Hey, jeff, how's it going?
Speaker 2:It's going really well. You're in the basement today. It looks like I'm in the basement. Today. Things here in the Midwest are very gloomy, as is usually the case these days in the middle of winter, but great time to sit and record podcasts where we uh unpack your linkedin posts yeah, you know, my, my mother-in-law has a fantastic office.
Speaker 3:She has much better. This is like her actual, just everyday background. She doesn't stream or anything. This is just how things look around here, so very good yes, it's all very buttoned up.
Speaker 2:It is. It is. There's a reason. My camera is pointed, maybe not quite that buttoned up around here.
Speaker 2:If you do not follow KP Ready on LinkedIn, you should. If you're listening to this, maybe I don't know how you got here. Maybe you were searching the internets, so to speak. Maybe you're on your favorite podcast app and you just happened upon this. But what we do here at KP Unpacked is we take one of KP's LinkedIn posts and unpack it. It's that simple. So if you're not following him, you should follow KP Ready on LinkedIn. So it's just KP Ready R-E-D-D-Y on LinkedIn. Follow him because he posts at least once a day, usually more, and all of his posts are very insightful about the AEC world, about innovation, about the future of professional services for the built environment, and I get to come here and spend a little bit of time talking about one of those posts with KP, asking what the inspiration is and digging a little deeper, and so we're going to do that here again today. The post that I've picked out this is actually a post that you reshared from our company page, so from the KP ReadyCo page. You re-shared this and it goes like this so many events in the AEC industry focus on panels that report back to the audience on the case studies of their work.
Speaker 2:So the past they report back on the past. They rarely shape any predictions of the work. So the past they report back on the past. They rarely shape any predictions of the future, mostly because they're there to promote their product or service, while our Catalyst Network and that's our online network for KP Ready Company we have a community online on the Circle platform, if any of you are familiar with that. It says while our Catalyst network has no crystal ball, they're hard at work contributing and collaborating on how innovation will shape everyone's future. Do you want to be in the room where it happens in quotes which you're going to tell me in a minute where that quote is from, because I'm not as cultured? Do you want to be in the room where it happens, or would you prefer to be Aaron Burr? Okay, that was the. That was the big hint, right there, right? So what's that quote from?
Speaker 3:That's from Hamilton. It's from Hamilton, which I'm not, clearly, I'm not, I'm not really that cultured. However, a lot of people hyped it up and said, hey, you got to go see hamilton. You got to see hamilton of course when people hype things up.
Speaker 3:I'm less interested in going, sure, because it means it's probably terrible, um, but I did go and I thoroughly enjoyed it and I was fortunate to meet some of the cast members, uh, and stuff like that. So super cool, um, but yeah, that's where it's from. Yeah, but there's very few like plays on recommending these days. I don't go to that many yeah, that I understand we can.
Speaker 2:We can talk concerts and things, maybe a little bit better, but, um, but I think I think that's a great reference right the the room where it happens. When I think about the Catalyst Network and again, a little bit of a description, that is our online community, that's our Facebook, if you will. I don't really like making that comparison, but I think it's understandable for people. It's a community where a platform where our community can gather and the people that are in there are leaders from ENR top 500 firms. They are people that are our mastermind members, our innovation leaders, our construction technology leaders, our early and mid-career, our AI pros. They are founders from our incubator companies. There are a lot of different people on our platform in that community, that catalyst network, but they are as you say, they are the doers, they're the people that are shaping the future of the built environment. So that is the room. That is a great way to describe it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think you know the challenge is you know, name the event, right, name the event. They are all driven by sponsorship models. That was kind of funny. I got an accounting for, uh, our 2024 sponsorship revenue. It it's, it barely deserves its own line item in our financial statement. Like it's pretty bad, like we don't get a lot of sponsors, um, and it's partly because a lot of sponsors are like, hey, I'd love to sponsor your event, I'd love to sponsor, love to sponsor your podcast. We get those, but then they want us to like only talk about, um, they don't want to talk about, like we have to talk about their nonsense, right, and I don't.
Speaker 3:I'm not gonna talk about whatever they're schlepping today. Um, I'll talk about stuff that people are schlepping if I believe in it, but I'm not like sure, I don't know what are they gonna pay us? Like 20 grand or something for what? Like that's a big, so what? Um? So I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker 3:I think what's happened is we have this industrialized event system in our industry, right the industrial complex right, whether it's the um, um, the, the alphabet soup of organizations, whether it's Built World, dnr, like the media side of things, where they're not really media right. If you think about DNR, probably a little bit more media, they report on projects and stuff, so there's like a journalistic component to it, whereas like Built World, there's no journalistic component to any of it. It's just really events and programming based on what sponsors want to do and that's fine. I'm not going to judge people's business models. That's their business model. I think the challenge with that is it becomes an echo chamber of the same companies and the same topics, because everybody's kind of selling the same stuff, right. And I think you know, one component we've added into our kind of ecosystem really has been owners and that's continuing to grow. And so the conversations that owners are having with us you know these are everyone's customers about how they want to work with us. I don't think I've ever seen that before in any community because there's just not a great forum for that. So we're going to continue to double down on our owner relationships into 2025.
Speaker 3:But you know, the Hamilton reference is basically that Aaron Burr gets like shut out of the meat, like when they talk about creating our country and the economic system and all those things and what this country stands for. Aaron Burr is not invited. I'm not sure why. I'm not sure what he was schlepping. Maybe he was schlepping something. Hey, no infomercials in here.
Speaker 3:man Like you can't come in here and tell us about what you're selling, um, but I think it's important, you know, and I think people keep asking us to define what we've been building and what I've been building like, oh, like you guys are events, you guys are community, like it's just like all the above, and I was like, maybe, maybe I don't need to. You know, we're not funded from the outside, right, you know, all these other organizations have investors. There's only one stakeholder here, like me. Right, so I get to do whatever I want to do in many ways, but there is some method to our madness in terms of really trying to move the industry forward on multiple levels.
Speaker 3:Right, madness in terms of really trying to move the industry forward on multiple levels. Right, on multiple levels, whether it's education, creating safe spaces for people to communicate to each other, by keeping some people out, you know, you create a safe space by curating the right people in the room and not letting the wrong people in the room. Right, right, right. So I think that's kind of why I was. You know, the post was interesting to me, other than you know, does anybody how cultured is our audience? I think, I think I'm the only one that reposted. I'm probably the only one that, like, reacted to it. So apparently our, our community is a lot less cultured not very I.
Speaker 3:That. I thought that. I thought I guess it's football season. Who can think about Broadway?
Speaker 2:I guess I guess yeah, well, there's something that you touch on or that you touched on there, that really got me thinking because I can't share too much about this because we're not really ready to announce it yet, but something that we're working on that I think will probably become a, the concept behind it, I think will probably become a driving force, if it's not already in what we do, and it's this idea of and understand you know, no hate mail, please, because I'm not going to apply this term absolutely properly but the idea of the circular economy. There's so much of what we do, and you mentioned having owners in the room and this thing that we're going to launch probably Q1, maybe towards the end of Q1 2025, is 100% focused on the circular economy, in that, when we talk about innovation for the built environment, what we mean is how it's designed, how it's developed, how it's constructed you know the materials and things that go into it how it's operated, how people live there, how people work there, whatever, whatever the use is, whatever the, the, the solution is.
Speaker 2:I suppose part of that. That's what I'm not completely properly referring to as the circular economy. It's everything involved in the built environment and in creating and operating in the built environment, and so the owners are a big piece of that right and so the room where it happens is, like you said, echo chamber.
Speaker 2:You know, and you come from a civil engineering background. I come from an architecture background. I've been a member of AIA. You know part of the alphabet soup for decades now, have spoken at all of the alphabet soup events, as you have, and the thing that stands out is, yes, those, those are echo chambers. I go to an AI event and it's architects and sponsors, generally speaking. I go to other types of events and they are, you know, it's this narrow swath and maybe sponsors, right, but our circular economy, you know, the room where it happens is truly the room where it happens, because it's the owner saying, hey, this is what we need, and it's the architects and engineers and contractors responding to that. It's not just this, oh, this is the way we ought to do business, it's got, it comes full circle the circular, circular economy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think you hit on it a little bit too. Like the building products manufacturers, right, these people have massive R&D budgets and we act like we can't give them the time of day. We'll let them come buy $10 sandwiches at a lunch and learn, yeah, Right. But if you think about it, in any system, if you take a systems thinking approach to anything right, and that's what we're designing and building, operating as systems, right, they're not buildings, they're systems. In what universe do they not have a seat at the table right and where we're giving them a feedback loop to say, hey, that next chiller you designed for your next version, here's some feedback on the existing one and here's the trends, here's some great feedback so that when you guys design your next chiller or you're inventing your next thing, we're giving you.
Speaker 3:I mean, I always tell people it's this odd thing where you know, if Apple designed an iPhone and never talked to the camera manufacturers and the glass manufacturers and everyone else and just kind of did it in a vacuum and said, oh, foxconn, go figure out, go figure it all out, right, that's what we're doing. It's absolutely absurd in the room right that are able to share an opinion and a voice and have like an integrated voice, so to speak, to drive change. I think that's really what we're doing and you know, a lot of people are like you know, it's kind of funny when we do some of these things and, of course, we have a revenue model associated with it, and I think I've yet I think we've yet to turn down somebody that is super passionate and, for whatever reason, their budget cycle or whatever that we say, hey, like we're going to exclude you because you can't pay to enter the room. I think we've been pretty good about making exceptions for the right people, right, the right people, and a lot of times it's just, you know, it's budgets and budget cycle, like whatever it is Right, and we've actually had a lot of people pay, like out of their own pocket, to be in the room because their boss is like no, I don't think you should be doing that, fine, right, they just do it themselves.
Speaker 3:So I think, while there's kind of a price of admission to the room right, I don't, I don't think that's where we're hanging our hat Now, with that said, like the revenue model allows us to drive growth right, allows us to make new hires, have more and more scale to what we're doing. So that's a necessary requirement. But I think foundationally we are just we're actually trying to drive change and not in a committee policy way. Right, if another alphabet soup organization starts another innovation committee, you know it's basically like a nothing. You know they're not doing anything right, or always related to like hey, how's that BIM standard going? You know from 15 years ago, like how's?
Speaker 1:IFCs going.
Speaker 3:Like when people want to talk about standards and every. What I'll tell you is everybody that wants to be on the same page will never do anything. Everybody being on the same page might be the definition of mediocrity.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:So my view is if you want to go do those things, go do those things, go, be mediocre. Everyone that knows me, I'm far from. I might deliver mediocrity sometimes, but it's not on purpose. I was just tired. I'm just tired, right, it's like my LinkedIn post. Not all of them are winners Sometimes I'm just tired. I was just tired, right, it's like my LinkedIn post. Not all of them are winners. Sometimes I'm just tired y'all. But sometimes I had maybe one or two bourbons and I'm a little sleepy too.
Speaker 3:But I think foundationally right, it's that drive to really make a difference. And I think the herd mentality is sometimes the circling of the wagons. Right, when I meet with these large firm roundtables and they all have a point of view, that's just absolutely wrong. That is a circling of the wagons and fear of the future. And if you're afraid of the future, like, go play somewhere else, go to Built Worlds. By the way, I love Built Worlds. A lot of my people are there built worlds. Uh, it's kind of funny. A lot of my portfolio companies. They've been sweeping up on the awards over built worlds. So I should probably have a better attitude towards it. But, um, because they do, they do help us out a good bit, uh, whether they like it or not, but, um but I think it's just what you're into, right, it's just what. What do you want to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, and I think the idea of of being in the room is is always is is also about being in the right room, you know, and the code is the room where it happens. And so, as as you're, as you were saying, that I'm thinking about, like our mastermind groups, right, in a way, you know, as a, for instance, our innovation leaders mastermind group. That's a, that's a role focused mastermind group. So this is people that are director of innovation, chief innovation officer, right, they? They have responsible responsibility at the strategy and budget level to guide innovation for their firms at the strategy and budget level, to guide innovation for their firms, and they are from architecture firms and engineering firms and construction firms. But this is also a room where they challenge each other, they ask questions and they you know, I have a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I do all the vetting for our mastermind groups and a lot of people are like, oh, I want to get into that group, and so they come. This is what I can bring to the group. This is what I can bring to the group, and so that's great. What do you want to take away from this group? Because it's a two way street and it can't be. You can't come to whether it's our community, our catalyst network, or it's our community, our Catalyst Network, or one of our events, like the executive briefing in Miami about a month ago, I think, as we record this our mastermind groups.
Speaker 2:You can't come with the idea of this is what I bring to it, because if that's what you bring to it, that's sort of a fixed mindset approach to it. Right, okay, this is, this is how I'm coming in. I don't care where you come in, I want to know where, where it is that you're going out. We have the same conversation in the incubator, right? If? If you have the same idea four weeks from now that you did today, there's a problem yeah, you bet.
Speaker 3:I mean you better show up and be ready to fight. Yeah, you better have a point of view right, we can't talk about it. Yeah, you better have a. Not everybody gets that reference.
Speaker 2:Jeff, I understand.
Speaker 3:That's an old Gen X reference.
Speaker 2:They can Google it.
Speaker 3:But I think, like, if you're going to show up and not have a position right, like you got to show up and not have a position right, like you got to show up and have a position, and everybody's going to pile on right and defend your position and it's through, like having a strong point of view and being willing to defend it, that's where the magic happens, right, that's where progress is made. It's not made through. Let's all decide on something together. Made through. Let's all decide on something together. Like let's all decide on something together. Yeah, that just means that we're gonna all decide on something that meets half of our needs right mediocrity for the architects out there, you know, because that those are my people, right?
Speaker 2:that's my world, that's my background.
Speaker 3:I think architecture might be going away.
Speaker 3:There there are, we know it. It might go. It might move actually from being its own discipline to being a function right To being a function Right To be a function of design Right it's. It's a a piece part like being a lighting consultant, right. And if you think about it I was, you know, I was talking to some architects about this They've like outsourced everything. You have a lighting consultant, a lead consultant, they basically become like project managers and once owners kind of start figuring that out, that they don't actually do that much, they're just outsourcing it all, then they love it. Owners love working with people that outsource everything, like general contractors. So I think it's an interesting time to really and these are the conversations we can have. I mean, I'll have them in a public forum, I don't care, but if you're in an architecture firm and you're in one of our, you know you're in the room we're having these conversations.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right and as an architect, you have to defend, like hey, like, I think you guys are wrong. I think architecture is always like great, let's go, let's go, let's run, let's run it.
Speaker 2:My take on that, though, is and this goes back 20 years ago I was part of the reason that our clients were coming to us was because of our design ability. Right, it was not only like the aesthetic, the exterior, you know, the elevations and whatnot, but it was also the experience of the spaces, and we understood that we weren't that great at producing the construction documents. We were proficient, we were competent, all those things, but we were slow and all that. So we did exactly what you're saying, right. We started to basically pare our practice down with the goal of clients who really, really wanted a certain level and expertise and there were specialties involved here, but that wanted that design expertise. Pay us for that right, pay us what we're worth for that, and we will happily let somebody else, you know, do the AutoCAD, the Revit models, the detailing, the whatever. You will consult with them, you know, to make sure that the design is is carried out.
Speaker 2:But I I could easily see, you know, the, the profession headed in a direction like that, or becoming a whole bunch of subspecialties. I think you know, I think the quote-unquote full service firms are kidding themselves because, because they can't right, they can't be the best at all of those aspects and arguably, they aren't the best at any of those aspects. Yeah, so I think what you're saying holds a lot of water. We really need to rethink the, the model, the business model, certainly, or business models that are possible, um, not only with technology, but in in the marketplace yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 3:It's kind of what happened with technology, you know, back in the 90s when I was building, you know, internet companies and such um, you had we basically hired graphic designers that knew how to use to build the front ends of website and they would take all the.
Speaker 3:They would take all the uh, you know, all the front end, the ux stuff. It was actually ui, it wasn't even ux, was like ui, right. And then they would create these heavy adobe files and then we'd basically have to carve them down into being JPEGs. And there were these elaborate things that quite honestly showed up in print but didn't show up on a screen back in the day for ADP. So they had to dumb it down a bit for the internet. And then we had a programmer that would take those up, take those and implement them in HTML. That was the system. Now, that's insane.
Speaker 3:Now we talk about full stack developers. The full stack developer understands the UX, the CX for those that you don't know user experience, customer experience. They understand that. They understand what can be done on the coding side. So in many ways back then the architects were like the graphic designers and the software coders were like the engineers and contractors, like, oh, how are we going to get this to work right? Oh, you put too much detail here. This is impossible to build, we're going to have to dumb it down for the internet, right.
Speaker 3:And now in software it's this full-stack developer, right. We used to have software engineers that didn't even have Adobe products because they were expected to be fed the images and where to put them right. That's what they did. Where do you want this image? Now we have full stack developers. It's kind of fully integrated right In most cases. So it's like, as you think about that, what does full stack look like to get the overall like impact for an owner? So, anyway, we digress a bit, but I mean honestly, these are the digressions we have or talk about this stuff. But I think I think the time has come in a way. We have generational shifts. I mean the conversations I'm having and you know how busy it is for me, but just what the owners are telling me and they don't have a voice and they spend all the money. How do you spend all the money and you don't have a say? So you don't have a voice in the industry, like that's.
Speaker 2:It's nonsense yeah, the the blind spot to that is a fundamental issue in the industry and I I fully believe that that is going to be leveraged, that's that is going to be a thing that that drastically changes the way the architects and engineers and contractors are able to do business going into the future, because the owners are getting to the chagrin of many out there that have closed their mind to this idea that they're in professional services. These are professional services fields, right, and if we are not creating a client experience and a client outcome, right, that our clients find value in, right, the value proposition of these things, then we lose and I think the owners are headed towards a place where they're better able to leverage uh, leverage that reality.
Speaker 2:I think that's going to have a huge impact on the way business is done going forward yeah, it's super interesting.
Speaker 3:I used to be a big bmw guy and there was a time where, man, if you were a driver and you wanted to drive a car bmw's, porsche, like those were the cars right um wasn't quite, didn't quite have the budget for the, the ferraris and and all those things, right um. And then I got out of my car phase. Now I'm in a motorcycle phase, but in my car phase it was an interesting time because if you bought a bmw, you had to be able to afford the maintenance, which was insane. It was they're all very problematic cars right at a point. And then BMW came out and said hey, for the first 60 000 miles, maintenance is included. That's when they took off.
Speaker 3:Yes, because it was like hey, I, you know, I, I love my BMW the day I buy it. But then a year later, it's my nemesis, right, like, oh my God, I just spent. Every time I go into the dealership it's $1,000. I can't afford to do this. And I think sometimes that's where we are with owners. Right, they get a building designed, they go through all the pain and suffering of it, they go through the financing department and, just like when you buy a car and you try to get sold all kinds of nonsense you don't need and there's negotiations and they do all that stuff right. But they finally get what they think they wanted and they are so excited, right. I always tell people the 10%, 10, the closeout docs. The reason why closeout docs don't happen is the owners just don't care anymore yeah, they have, they've been beaten into submission.
Speaker 3:They just want the damn keys to the building. Yeah, they're just ready to move in. Yeah, yeah, whatever closeout docs, get them to me later. They never follow up, they never get delivered, right, because they're just so excited to move in. And then they release that 10% retainage or whatever the retainage is. Then they go into building and they're like so excited, it's like that new building smell, right, all those VOCs coming off the carpets and the paints. Fantastic, right, it's that vibe, right.
Speaker 3:But then, five years from now, damn, they're unhappy with their building. This hasn't worn well. Oh my god, that damn chiller's always given us a problem. Um, there's, I mean, all the things right, but everybody's gone, everybody's gone and they're done, so now they're unhappy. But the problem is the people that are unhappy with it never have a voice on the next project, all the maintenance people. So I feel like that's where we are in a moment in time where there's so many things, just amazing things happening in the world right now in terms of projects and airports and stuff like that. However, um, I think the owners are are figuring it out yeah, yeah, we could.
Speaker 2:We could do a whole episode on this. Certainly right, because we could. Yeah, we could dig into what I call sophisticated versus unsophisticated owners, and you know people like that. So the beauty is, sometimes we get to speak in extremes and absolutes, but I think you know in terms of the forces that are driving the market, and you know it's just like. You know we talk about trickle-down. What always amazes me is I used to here's something that our audience doesn't know I used to race mountain bikes and there was a particular brand.
Speaker 3:You mean when you were young when you were young, when I was younger.
Speaker 2:Yes, a crash now would not be good.
Speaker 2:My hip Recovery time is much longer these days, no matter how many yoga classes I go to. But it used to always amaze me in the days when dual suspension bikes became attainable dual suspension bikes became attainable that a lot of the technology that was on my bike whether it was the suspension fork or the shock for the back, a lot of that was coming directly, indirectly, was coming from Formula One. And you think about that and go, okay, well, you know you guys are talking about these owners that you know that are big owners or whatever it's like. It trickles down, it's coming down, whether it's in the form of tech or expectations. It's coming down and it will drive the market. So, again, we could do a whole series on this. Maybe we should, but these are the things that are discussed at executive briefings and are discussed in mastermind groups, that are discussed in the Catalyst Network, which you refer to as sort of the basis of this post that we've been unpacking. So let me recap. I'll read the post again and again. If you're not following KP Ready K-P-R-E-D-D-Y on LinkedIn, you should be. This is actually one that KP reposted from our corporate page, from the KP Ready Co page, but it pops up, of course, on his personal feed here.
Speaker 2:So many events in the AEC industry focus on panels that report back to the audience on the case studies of their work, so, in other words, the past. They rarely shape any predictions of the future, mostly because they are there to promote their product or their service. While our Catalyst network has no crystal ball, they are hard at work, contributing and collaborating on how innovation will shape everyone's future, and you know you may read that or hear me say that go, that sounds odd. We're referring to our community, the Catalyst Network, in that sense, and so the question is do you want to be in the room where it happens the Hamilton reference or would you prefer to be Aaron Burr? If you haven't seen the musical, maybe you need to Google that. I don't know what you need to do in order to understand that.
Speaker 2:Maybe re-listen to KP's explanation at the beginning of this episode, but hopefully this has been intriguing, thought-provoking. We've gone a little bit all over the place in this conversation, but I think it's been a good one. Thank you for this, KP. Absolutely. We'll be back again next week. We publish one of these episodes every week where we unpack KP's LinkedIn posts. If you're not following him again, kp Ready on LinkedIn Once, twice, three times. The latest on LinkedIn, kp's posting things that are definitely relevant, that are thought-provoking and may challenge you in terms of the way things are happening and will happen in the AEC industry. So thanks for listening. We'll be back. Our producer, ethan, will post everything in the show notes, all the links and things that we've talked about, and we'll see you again next week. Thanks everybody, thanks KP, hey.
Speaker 3:Jeff, see you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to another episode of KP Unpacked. You can connect with KP Ready today at kpreadyco that's K-P-R-E-D-D-Yco and additionally follow him on LinkedIn at wwwlinkedincom. Until next time.