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KP Unpacked
KP Unpacked explores the biggest ideas in AEC, AI, and innovation—unpacking the trends, technology, discussions, and strategies shaping the built environment and beyond.
KP Unpacked
Too Early to Lead? Think Again.
What if your “too early” is actually right on time?
In this episode of KP Unpacked - the number one podcast in AEC, Jeff Echols sits down with structural engineer turned AI innovator Kevin Jeswani to unpack one of KP Reddy’s boldest articles: Your Career Deserves a Firestarter Moment.
Kevin’s story is the ultimate proof that you don’t need a senior title to start driving change in the AEC industry.
From automating his own workflows to launching data-driven initiatives at startups, Kevin shares how he broke out of the traditional career path, embraced AI before it was trendy, and built a role that didn’t exist on any job board.
🚀 Key takeaways:
- Why "waiting your turn" is a career killer in the age of AI
- How engineers can transition into innovation roles without starting over
- The real mindset shift behind disrupting yourself before you're disrupted
- What early-career professionals really need to hear about leadership
This episode is a wake-up call for anyone stuck in the loop of outdated career advice. Whether you’re five months or fifteen years into your career—it’s time to spark your own fire.
🎉 Special Offer for KP Unpacked Listeners: Get 55% off your ticket to the 9th Annual AEC Summit on October 29th at the Diverge Innovation Center in Phoenix! Click the link below and use promo code UNPACKED55 at checkout.
Don't miss this opportunity to connect with top minds in AEC and beyond. Tickets are limited—act fast!
All right, welcome back to another edition of KP Unpacked. My name is Jeff Eccles. I am the director of our mastermind programs and our incubator at KP Ready Company. I'm also a senior advisor and I host the KP Unpacked podcast. Usually, I'm joined by KP Ready. You've already noticed, if you're watching this, that I I'm joined by KP Ready. You've already noticed, if you're watching this, that I'm not joined by KP Ready. Today I have another special guest. Today this is a little bit of a spinoff of the KP Unpacked series where I am going through and I'm speaking with all of our Mastermind members. So, for a little bit of background, here at KP ReadyCo we have a number of mastermind groups. They're peer groups. They're groups where professionals get together to share experience, to share challenges and connect with each other around the success of their roles, their positions and looking into the future in innovative ways that we are approaching, designing, building, developing, operating the built environment. So today I am joined by one of the members of our early and mid-career mastermind group, kevin Jeswani. Kevin, welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Jeff. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a pleasure to have you here. It's always a pleasure to have you in our Mastermind meetings, just between you and me and, I guess, the hundreds of thousands of people that are listening to this. The Early and Mid-Career group is one of my favorite groups because it's you know. You know this and some people have heard me say this before, but my background is architecture. Kpu Ready's background is civil engineering. Neither one of us do those things right. We've both taken these alternative career paths, if you will, and that's really why we launched the Early and Mid-Career Group.
Speaker 1:It becomes a collection of folks like yourself that have some sort of background, and probably in engineering. A lot of the folks in the group have engineering backgrounds and maybe they're still quote unquote doing engineering, but maybe they're taking a tangent, maybe they're doing some other things, and I also know that many of those people like yourself perhaps aspire to take a different path through the profession. Maybe they look at our innovation leaders mastermind group and say, hey, how do I become an innovation leader, chief innovation officer or director of innovation or something like that? So to me, the early and mid-career group is a lot of fun because we bring in speakers, we have conversations and it reminds me of all the things that had me fired up when I was early and mid-career, and so I just enjoy those conversations and I really appreciate you and everybody else that shows up for those and explore these topics and dig deep with us every time we meet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really appreciate what KP Ready and the entire organization is doing for people like me who don't fit the mold of a traditional role and who came from a background in structural engineering. So, yeah, I mean, I'm Kevin, I'm based out of Toronto, I work for a structural engineering consulting firm called Elema, based in Quebec and Ontario mainly. I am also working for a startup, lumiate, as a machine learning engineer that's aiming to automate quantity takeoffs, scheduling and risk registers for major infrastructure projects. I've had a very long and winding journey. I say long and winding it feels like it was long, but it's actually not that long. I actually began working in structural engineering. I have a background in structural engineering, structural earthquake engineering to be specific, I did a deep research on the seismic resilience of large building portfolios, with a case study on a thousand public school buildings in Manila, philippines. So very, very niche in the structural engineering space. But it gave me a lot of exposure to working with multiple government and non-government organizations, doing site visits, visiting 200 school buildings, doing detailed structural simulations, examining portfolio recovery based on state-of-the-art frameworks that were developed in the US and then adapting them for the South Asian, specifically Philippine, context. So right off the bat, coming out of my education, I was already exposed to juggling a lot of different concepts, a lot of different domains. Juggling a lot of different concepts, a lot of different domains and handling them competently. And obviously the next first step for an engineer is you go and do your structural engineering training, working towards your P-Eng or your P-E, depending on where you are.
Speaker 2:I joined Elema around 2021. And I quickly became the firm's seismic design specialist, designing about 50, over 50 buildings. In that first one one and a half year I spent a lot of additional self-imposed time building new spreadsheets and scripts, mainly to automate my daily tasks. But I found that I had a passion for refining design procedures, creating new tools that optimize design workflows and even though I was designing towers really early on in my career, living out my childhood dream something I dreamed of doing since I was six, I quickly realized that actually I enjoyed process automation a lot more, and we're going to talk about this a bit more later. But the article that KP posted on Substack that we're actually going to be discussing the big myth I'm too early in my career to lead change. That specific line really struck home to me because that summarizes my entire career so far, and KP specifically said your career deserves a fire starter moment. And for me that was being stuck doing certain design tasks that I absolutely hated, and that was the fire starter moment. And developing solutions for myself became a passion for developing solutions for others and refining general workflows and organizations.
Speaker 2:So within that first year and a half I very quickly was like, okay, I don't want to be designing buildings for the rest of my life. What else can I do? How can I make a pivot? And at that time it was very, very difficult to find innovation roles in general, especially for juniors, and it's still really difficult to find those kinds of roles now. I decided to jump in and do a data science bootcamp, went part-time, realized I couldn't afford living in Toronto, went back to the Philippines while I was working part-time with the same employer that graciously let me stick around.
Speaker 2:As I was finishing up my bootcamp, I figured I may as well try and jump into the startup world and find something in pure data science. So I joined a logistics and supply chain scale up in the Philippines called Grossari, which has over $100 million in VC funding and probably one of the bigger unicorns in Southeast Asia. I absolutely love that experience. It put me in a hybrid role which was half operations, excellence, managerial work, project management and half data science work. So I was not just finding opportunities within the organization for data science, but then I was going and building the solution, managing juniors and so on. So for me, that was the big light bulb moment that went off in my head that okay, I really want to do process automation. But all my background, my education, all the hundreds of thousands my parents spent on my education, was in civil engineering, yeah. So after that I worked with them for a year, tried to.
Speaker 2:I came back to Canada and was wondering okay, what, what could I do that would blend both expertise, also being in a completely different domain and knowing that I can tackle any challenge that's put in front of my face. I proposed AI projects to the employer that I was with and that I'm with again, elema, and they were very receptive to it. So I started as a machine learning developer, building out some AI project proof of concepts, and the role quickly evolved into me being a digital engineering manager for the structural engineering firm, working with our sister company, lemay, an architecture firm, trying to develop AI strategies and think of projects that we could tackle. So the role is very much so multifaceted and involves project management, strategy, research, machine learning, development. I've picked up a lot of software engineering fundamentals as well, and it's been an incredible journey.
Speaker 2:And about three months ago I got an offer to join the startup Lumi8, where I'm doing machine learning dev for them. This role is also very multifaceted. They're pretty much letting me get my hands dirty wherever there's an opportunity to do so. That involves strategy. It involves helping the seniors developing system architecture, working on our code base, trying out new AI models, doing networking and connecting people for fundraising, dealing with products. So just diving into everything I can learn. And yeah, that's where I'm at right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love it and thank you for telling us your story. I teach at the university and you know I don't think it's any secret to anyone that there are an awful lot of students that come out of school and go, hey, this isn't exactly what I thought it was going to be. Right, this is what we did in school, this is what I learned in school, this is what I thought engineering was, or architecture was, or construction management, you know, wherever, whatever it was that you were, you were focusing your academic career on. And then you get out into the quote unquote real world and go, oh, this isn't what I expected. I think that's pretty natural. Lot of is people that will, you know, buck, the system isn't the right way to say it, but as you've described, you took a different path right Very quickly, very early in your career. You said, well, maybe it doesn't have to be this way. You know, maybe I can take some initiative here, maybe I can do some other things, maybe I can get involved, maybe I can look at what my career could be differently than the. You know the traditional path that a structural engineer may follow for the journey that you've been on and you mentioned this article on our sub stack. So it's KP ReadyCo on sub stack. The title of the article that Kevin's referring to is your career deserves a fire starter moment.
Speaker 1:And if you've listened to KP unpack, before one of the episodes where KP and I sit down we pick one of his posts from LinkedIn generally and we start to unpack that. You know I joke all the time that I get to ask KP hey, what were you thinking when you wrote that? And so we dig into his articles, and what I love doing with all of our mastermind members is doing sort of the same thing. Hey, what do you see? Either articles on our sub stack or articles or posts on LinkedIn. What do you see that KP or someone else on our team is talking about, writing about? What does it mean to you, how does that inspire you and how do we unpack that? So that's how this conversation with Kevin and other Mastermind members ties to the KP Unpacked conversation with Kevin and other Mastermind members ties to the the KP Unpacked theme of our podcast here. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to read probably, you know, maybe maybe a couple of sentences or a paragraph or so at the beginning of this, this article. Again. It's it's called your Career Deserves a Firestarter Moment. I'll read a little bit and then Kevin and I will start to unpack it, because I really want to know and he's already mentioned this to some extent, but I want to know what this article has meant to him and how it has inspired him.
Speaker 1:So it goes like this the AEC industry is facing an undeniable moment of transformation, and it's happening now. The real question isn't if change is coming, it's whether you're ready to evolve with it or if you're stuck in outdated ways that will soon leave you behind. If you still see innovation as a nice to have rather than a must have, you're missing the point. This isn't about adding new tools to your existing process. It's about fundamentally rethinking how we design, how we build and how we operate. This is no longer just about keeping up with the competition, it's about survival.
Speaker 1:And then it goes on from there. Kp goes on from there in his writing. You know there are a couple of headlines. One is, or subheads, I guess. One is the big myth, and this is one that you mentioned earlier, kevin. The big myth. I'm too early in my career to lead change, so you mentioned that. Let's unpack this article a little bit and you can start wherever you want. But I've already heard, you know, this idea of I'm too early in my career and you've blown that out of the water, right. You started exploring all kinds of different avenues um just just a year and a half or so into your careers, as you were telling the story, when that, when that, that heading caught your eye, when you started thinking about this article and how it maybe reflects your own journey. What was going through your head at that point? What is it that connects with you so well in this article?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. This really struck a nerve with me because going into the structural engineering space you're taught that you have to wait at least five years before you can do project management, and then it's another probably 15 years until you're a senior, like a senior or a partner. And immediately I realized that I didn't fit that mold. It could be a personality thing. I've always tried to strive for excellence, type A, a personality, never always having my head down in my books, studying my mind and body to get things done, and I felt that it was. The role itself was too constraining and thankfully the leader of engineering at Elema has always been inspiring in that way. He's always ready to break the mold. If there's an alternative solution to something he's like, go for it. And so, even though I wasn't necessarily in a position where I would be able to instill change or command change in the organization, at least internally with my own processes, I already started to make my life easier and slowly started pushing that procedure on everybody else, because I ended up training people. So in being responsible for training them for that particular exercise, I realized, oh, I don't have to be a senior to do this. And in fact I'm noticing now that it's actually people who are younger maybe not necessarily younger, but in general younger, but in general younger and not tied down to 15, 20 years of having done something the same way they're the ones who are more receptive to trying something new and, honestly, especially with the AI boom, my transition into data science and software actually coincided with Chad GPT coming out. So the first half of my bootcamp I learned the basics old school way, learning how to actually program. And then Chad GPT came out around three months in when I was starting to do more projects and my mind was blown the tools are there. Now the tools are there so you can go and learn.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter how old you are, where, what, what, what stage in your career you're at it. It just takes chatting. It just takes chatting. It just takes asking questions. It just takes figuring things out for yourself and being just being inquisitive in general.
Speaker 2:Um, so what also struck a nerve with me was if you don't shake things up, you'll never grow, and I mean I feel like that applies to everything in life, right? If you stay sedentary, your body's going to decay. If you don't give your mind the proper mental health diet, that's also going to decay. And it's the same thing with your career, it's the same thing with learning, same thing with picking up new skills. And I think people really need to understand that the next five to 10 years is going to look very different, not just for the computer science industry, not just for programming of life is going to change drastically, and not necessarily for the worse, but it will be different. And if people don't relearn how to learn, they will get stuck behind.
Speaker 2:And KP has said time and time again in this article and elsewhere stop waiting for the perfect moment. The time to act is now. If you want to stay ahead, you need to be willing to disrupt yourself, and that starts with embracing AI. And that doesn't mean you have to be a machine learning developer. It means tools are out there. Go learn something new.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting to me. You mentioned the transformation that's going to happen, maybe the AI-driven transformation that's going to happen in the next five to 10 years. And then earlier you were talking about the amount of time five to 15 to 20 years of basically keeping status quo as a young engineer to project manager, to senior engineer. And if we look at those two things five to 10 years in this AI revolution, if we call it that and up to 20 years to get to the point of some sort of leadership or senior engineer kind of title where you may have thought about having the agency to change those two don't work together, right? The 20 years of this is the way we've always done it, the 20 years of holding the status quo, while in the next five to 10 years there's going to be this revolution of emerging technology. Absolutely, you're going to get passed by, right, and I think that's also a good illustration. It's not just engineering, right, and I think that's also a good illustration. It's not just engineering, of course. I mean architecture firms, construction firms. Many are just as slow to change the industries, the professions are just as slow to 10 years versus 20 years on the career side. So I like the way you've tied those together and this idea that innovation isn't a side project right, that's straight out of the article.
Speaker 1:Innovation isn't a side project. It's your core strategy, kp, and I have talked about that on past podcast episodes right, if you're not thinking about ways to innovate your own job, it's going to be done for you. Right? Something is going to happen. That's going. You mentioned it earlier. You have to be willing to and looking for ways to disrupt yourself. You know, I think that's where we are. So it's disrupt or be disrupted self.
Speaker 2:you know, I think that's where we are. So it's it's a disruptor, be disrupted. Exactly. It's innovator die, essentially, and a large part of it is. Also it's somewhat related to your mental health diet. Yeah, it's related to your mental health diet, who you listen to, and being part of the KP ready mastermind group has actually pushed me in going in the direction of joining a startup, because I was feeling very jaded with the AEC industry and slow progress.
Speaker 2:But knowing that there are people who are I mean, kp is an influencer in the AEC space, and knowing that, that's that the message is out there that, OK, things are going to change.
Speaker 2:Quick Jump on this bandwagon and it's not just a fad, it's going to drastically change the industry. And then the other light bulb went in my head that, oh, I don't have to throw away all of my years of experience in civil engineering. I can use it to my advantage. But I just need to make sure that I'm picking up new tool sets and building new skills as a, as someone who's just very well-rounded, making sure that I can communicate properly, making sure that, um, I'm not too focused on doing like cop, sticking to my copy pasting workflow and in a structural engineering design like that. All of that is gone. All of that is going to get replaced. You need to do what makes you different and hone in on that, but also make yourself well rounded, think of different ways that you could potentially be disrupted, and that's career wise and also in terms of like your persona.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure, sure, sure, absolutely. The one of the things that always strikes me when we're having conversations and are, say, our innovation leaders or construction technology leaders, mastermind groups, is, for all the technology that's out there AI and otherwise for all of the change that's happening and we talk sometimes specifically about how to build different AI tools, et cetera we talk about other things that are very technical, that are very practical, are really reveal how these leaders and their firms are thinking about and implementing and using emerging technologies to change the way that they work. And for all of those conversations the most common conversations that we actually have the topics that come up most often are almost always communication. How do you communicate about what you're doing to your internal clients, to your external clients, in-house, and to your clients that you're working with? And then I haven't figured out the right way to say this.
Speaker 1:I think I hit on it the other day and I've since forgotten about it, but but I hate to call it the people problem, but it's the, it's the people aspect of innovation, the people aspect of change and change management, and it's so. It's those, it's those very human pieces that that are necessary, right? We? We, we think about the technology. We talk about AI all the time, but it's the human. There are the human aspects that are absolutely necessary in this. So so you know, how do we, how do we communicate what we're doing, how do we get people on board with change, how do we get our ourselves on board with change and and manage that change as we go forward?
Speaker 1:And another topic that came up this week actually, at least as we're recording this was a discussion about building innovation teams inside of firms. Do you hire from outside, do you hire from inside? Do you hire people from tech? Do you hire engineers that have machine learning or AI aptitude, things like that? And the consensus was, generally, we hire from inside. We find those people who are thinking differently and operating differently, who are innovating on their own, that understand, you know, if it's structural engineering, they understand, they have that background, they understand it and they can adopt to and understand how to build or innovate with the technology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the culture of innovation is that leaders in that mastermind group is that not many of them are devs per se, but they know how to foster that environment. Even if they're a large organization, there's a lot of bureaucracy. They've basically carved out a space where people can innovate in a sandbox and propose different ideas, and I'm trying to take ideas from that and adapt it to my particular role as well, because just recently I got approval to begin training some of our juniors who have an interest in Python in Python. And the beauty of the time we live in now is that I don't have to wait until they go do a bootcamp. I don't have to wait until we pay $10,000, $20,000 for the reskilling.
Speaker 2:I made them do a two-hour tutorial on basic Python programming and then I gave them a quick, very basic calculation task. That maybe is not being deployed, but just to get them working on something tangible and something real. And I told I set up their, their dev environment, I set up how to use Cloud Pro and I've made sure that they're not just copy pasting everything, they're really breaking down problems and understanding it, absorbing it, and I basically recreated an education system internally so that that that is the beauty of the time we live in, right, and you don't have to be constrained by uh, what had to be done five, 10, 15 years ago?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. Right, you're, you're early to mid of your career and you started. You started out with that disillusionment, which I think is I really think that's natural, right, yeah, the academia and reality don't necessarily match up, right? So you, you, you realize that and then you decided to do something about it. You decided to do something differently. You decided to do something about it. You decided to do something differently and, and you know, the things that you're talking about right now are real world things.
Speaker 1:They're when we look at our innovation leaders. We listen to to them talking about what they're fostering in their firms. You're, right now, you're not far off from what many of these leaders are doing and we can. You know, one advantage we have at KP, ReadyCo and in these mastermind groups is we do have the innovation leaders, the construction tech leaders, the leading edge of technology adoption and development across AEC. We have them in our ecosystem and talk to them every, every week, actually every week of the month. We're, we're talking with these leaders and what you're demonstrating, what you're, what you have been experiencing, but I think, more importantly, what you've been creating. You've been creating your own experience. It reflects been creating, you've been creating your own experience. It reflects what's happening in the bigger industry. So it feels to me like you found something and you're on a pretty good track.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely hope so, and it's also opened up a whole new industry to me which is just joining startups, and that has really clicked with my, my, my personality and the way I think it's just build, build, build, build, build, build and focus on UI and UX right, like going back to what you mentioned about how critical communication is in the whole environment of having AI communication and having the human touch. Making sure that because humans are ultimately going to be controlling the higher level operations of these, these automated systems Right, and we need to make sure that things are are easy to audit, things are easy to control, understand really like dig down deeper when needed. And you have to really strike that balance. And being able to communicate what these new systems do to people who are going to use these new automated systems that you're building is very, very critical, but also making sure that the system itself is able to communicate what it's doing is really important. So it's taking that, that skill of communication, and putting it into the software that you're building.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's something you know. Some people may hear that right If they're not familiar or they're not plugged into the startup world or they look at it and go OK, here you go.
Speaker 1:Or they're not plugged into the startup world, or they look at it and go okay, here's a couple of guys again talking about tech and professional services. Isn't the tech world, it's not the startup world. And if that's you, if you're listening to this and you're thinking about that, I'd ask you to put that on pause for a second, because one of the things that Kevin just mentioned he mentioned UI and UX and you may say, oh, okay, that's software, software terms. You know UX, user experience. What does that have to do with engineering or architecture or whatever? Well, change one of those letters, change it to client experience. I would propose that, as we go forward, the client experience becomes more and more and more important. When we think about architects and engineers, contractors, where we are in the value chain, right, the better experience that clients have, the more likely they are to see value in what we do. Of course, we have to create that value, but if they don't have a good experience, right, they're going to look for alternatives. So I think that's very important. And then, on, you know, on the other side, does do startups? You know, does the startup world, does this technology have anything to do with AEC. Well, is a software company the same as an engineering company? Well, I mean, I guess the answer is probably it depends.
Speaker 1:But the thing is and also, I direct our incubator, our startup incubator. What's going through our incubator? And the startups like the ones that that Kevin is talking about, these? These are people that are building the tools that you're going to be using. Right, and I was telling somebody this the other day when I look back, I've been running our, our incubator, for two years now and I look back at all the cohorts that have gone through our incubator in the two years that I've been running it, and this is an estimate. But I would say 98% of the founders came from the industry. Right, we've got a, we've got a Microsoft. You know X Microsoft in there. You know there's, there's a, there's a few an ex-GE in there.
Speaker 1:But by and large, the founders that are pushing projects through our incubator are people from the industry that identified a problem, probably in their workflow or you know their client's experience, or something like that, and said, hmm, I think we need to develop a solution to this, and so paying attention to these things can really show you, uh, the the trends in tools and the trends in client experience and the trends in in, um, the direction that the industry is headed. So I I'm with Kevin. I vote for paying attention to these things because it's, um, you know, if you're not, you're sticking your head in the sand and, um, if you are paying attention, then you have a much better view of what things are going to be looking like a year, five years from now, um, when you walk into the office and or sit down at your desk and, uh, start working on that next project yeah, you hit the nail right on the head.
Speaker 2:Uh. So internally, when I was developing tools initially and where I the the idea of process automation, uh, the the passion for it sparked it was it was specifically because these were things that I was miserable doing day in and day out, and that's how it started.
Speaker 2:And when I would implement new tools, I was initially more forceful in that, like this is the way Kevin does it, this is the way it's got to be. But then, especially recently, I've obviously learned to change that approach and it's like okay, now that I'm not the person doing the design anymore my brain doesn't necessarily work the way other people do.
Speaker 2:And again, coming back to ux, and also understanding the variety and and the way people interact with these tools is really, really important. And even if most startups, most startups, especially people in technical roles, do struggle with this, where it's like, yeah, but this is like the most technically obvious way to do something right, like we want, like it has to be done, it's the most efficient, but that might actually not work out day to day. And with the AEC industry, I feel like, yes, it has taken some time to finally get here, but with this boom town happening, this gold rush in AEC tech, you still going back to what you said. You still do see the fact that most people are coming from the industry. They understand the real problems of what people go through day to day and that's something that can't be forgotten.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. I'm speaking today with Kevin Jaswani. He is a member of our early and mid-career mastermind group. He is a professional engineer at Elema in Toronto. He's also an artificial intelligence and machine learning engineer at Luminant and we have been today, in our typical KP Unpacked fashion, we've been unpacking an article. You can find this one on the KP ReadyCo substack. The title is your Career Deserves a Firestarter Moment.
Speaker 1:As you're listening to this or maybe you're watching this on youtube, however, you're consuming this, um, everything that, um, we've been talking about that needs a link will be in the show notes below, so you can just click on the go down to the show notes, click on the link and you can find this article.
Speaker 1:But, um, maybe, maybe our sub stack is something you want to to subscribe to, because many of the things, especially that KP and I talk about on this podcast to get turned into to articles here, as well as as other things that our team writes, so might be a really good resource for you. If you want to know more about our incubator program or about our mastermind program again, there should be a link to me down in the show notes as well. Reach out to me on LinkedIn, that's a pretty easy way to connect with me, and then I'd also encourage you to reach out to Kevin. If you want to connect with Kevin, do a little bit of networking, learn more about what he's doing, what he's about, connect with him. We'll have a link in the show notes as well. He's also very visible on LinkedIn. So, kevin, thank you so much for joining me today. I really I enjoy having you in our early and mid-career mastermind group and I'm glad that you joined me for this conversation today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm uh, I'm glad that you joined me for this conversation today. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I mean, all I can really hope for is that there's a another junior in in a similar place I was in five years ago and all I can say is just jump, just do it, just go for it.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. That's actually it's, it's part of the advice from this article. Your career deserves a fire starter moment. Maybe this conversation that I'm having right now with Kevin is your fire starter moment. Maybe you're hearing this and going I need to listen to his advice. I need to read uh KP's article and that needs to be the thing that really sets fire to my uh, maybe my alternative path to some engineering or architecture construction career. So thank you for thank you for your eyes and ears, depending on how you're consuming this, this content, today. Thank you, kevin, for joining me and all of our all of our listeners out there, and I'll be back again next week with another episode of KP impact. Thanks everybody.
Speaker 2:Thank you.