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KP Unpacked
KP Unpacked explores the biggest ideas in AEC, AI, and innovation—unpacking the trends, technology, discussions, and strategies shaping the built environment and beyond.
KP Unpacked
Are We Solving the Wrong Problems in AEC?
In this episode of KP Unpacked—the number one podcast in AEC—Jeff Echols sits down with architect and senior research advisor Zig Rubel to explore a bold question: What if the biggest issues in AEC aren’t what we think they are?
Zig brings his unique lens—from massive healthcare projects to tech startups—to unpack why most industry “solutions” may be missing the mark. Together, they dig into how KP Reddy Co.’s research team is flipping the script—asking not how we fix problems, but whether we’re chasing the right ones to begin with.
In this episode:
- The surprising reason most AEC “problems” are just symptoms
- How architects, engineers, and owners view the process differently
- Why the research team is talking to everyone—from executives to project doers
- What Zig expects to hear in 200+ interviews (spoiler: it’s bigger than tech)
- Why now is the time to question how the built environment really impacts us
If you’re tired of surface-level fixes and ready to rethink AEC’s future—this one’s for you.
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It’s a space for AEC forward-thinkers are reimagining what’s next. This is where the top minds in the industry are sharing ideas, leading change, and pushing the future of AEC forward.
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Check out one of our Catalyst conversation starters, AEC Needs More High-Agency Thinkers
Hope to see you there!
Hey, welcome back to KP Unpacked. This is where the biggest ideas in AEC and AI and innovation they all collide in one podcast that's powered by KP ReadyCo. This is where we break down the trends, the technology, the discussions and the strategies that are shaping the built environment and beyond. My name is Jeff Eccles. I run our mastermind and our incubator programs here at KP ReadyCo, and if you've been a listener here at the podcast or watch the videos on YouTube, you know that I host all of our podcasts and video productions as well.
Speaker 1:Now, normally you would see me on screen or you'd listen to it. You'd be listening for KP Reddy's voice. He's the CEO and founder of KP ReddyCo, but I've launched into a special project here because here at KP ReddyCo we have started a new research project and I wanted to introduce to you the entire research team, to you the entire research team. So I've been going, teammate by teammate by teammate, interviewing all of our research, our senior research advisors that's their actual titles and asking them how they got here, what their background is, what lens they're looking at this research through, and so today I am joined by Zig Rubel. If you have been here and listened to the podcast before, you may recognize that name because Zig is a past guest. So, zig, welcome. I'm glad you're here, glad to be here. You are one of the few repeat guests, by the way, other than KP. You're one of the few repeat guests here on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm sure I will be part of the drove of repeat guests that you will be getting, Jeff.
Speaker 1:It's an invitation, only thing.
Speaker 2:So that means you're in complete control.
Speaker 1:It does mean that, and I'm glad to be able to bring you back here. Mean that and I'm glad to be able to bring you back here, um, bring you back this time as a member of the um, of the research team. We had a different context for the last conversation and for anybody that's been listening along, uh, depending on where they they picked up the conversation, maybe they've heard me talking with David or Ted or Frank or Hope. But one of the things that, if you have been listening along, that is probably really apparent by now is that our research team has both a breadth and depth of knowledge in the built environment. Let's say it that way Zig is an architect He'll talk about that.
Speaker 1:David comes from construction, ted from building product manufacturer, frank from engineering, hope from the owner's side, and that gives us the breadth. But all of these folks on our research team have an incredible depth and expertise in their verticals, in their lanes, so to speak. Zig, of course, is no exception here, but a deep expertise in their part of the AEC world, their part of the built environment. So I think, as we start to unpack the research that we're doing, as ZIG and I are talking about, I think you'll understand why that breadth and depth is so important. So, zig, for those who maybe didn't catch you the first time around, can you give us a little bit of your background? What have you been up to? Where have you been? How did you get to this point where we are today?
Speaker 2:Sure. So, as you mentioned, jeff, I'm an architect, both by training and vocation. I started practicing in New York City, and while I was in New York City I worked on my first health care project. I then worked in Kansas, of all places. You're probably wondering what does a city person do in Kansas, and the reality is many people who live and work in New York City don't get to work on new buildings. Most of the work was remodeling, and Kansas afforded me the opportunity to work on 4 million square feet from the ground up.
Speaker 2:So it was an exciting, exhilarating experience. We were designing it and the next day they were building it. But while I was there my sister had got operated on in one of the healthcare projects I had architected back in New York. So I had an interest in going into healthcare architecture. So I came out to California because there was legislation called SB 1953 that required hospitals to better withstand seismic activity and the thought was they're going to be rebuilding a third of the hospitals. That hasn't happened yet. It may never happen, but there is a lot of healthcare construction. So for the first 10 years that I've been in California I worked on several major projects in and around the Bay Area and it's been a fantastic experience.
Speaker 2:In that 10th year I came across someone who is a technologist and he wanted to start a company that uses design automation from the semiconductor world and apply it to healthcare design. And that was kind of of an intriguing idea because we, when we go to interviews we all say we're better and different than the other person. But we're really not. For the most part we all use the same tools and most of our buildings all kind of look the same way. But we're real, especially in healthcare. But we're really not that much different and the idea of using what's called electronic design automation technology was really intriguing. So I founded the company. We raised a bunch of money.
Speaker 2:I was with the company for about eight years and then the company decided to focus on the software side. And I'm not a software engineer even though I'm an architect, I'm not a software architect. So I went back into traditional practice and have been there, did start a small technology company focusing on healthcare space planning requirements. When KP reached out to me and said I'm thinking about starting a research group, would you be interested? And I kind of got into the. Well, tell me more and I'm sure we'll get into that, not to steal your thunder.
Speaker 1:No, not at all that, as I said, I mean it's a similar story amongst all of the research team, right? They're focusing on their engineering career or their construction career or work in startups and building product manufacturers, or doing business development and owner relations, or something like that. And now there's this interesting proposition about a research project, which may seem strange maybe to some folks on the outside. You know what? What? What a research project? What the heck? One of the things I come back to is in running our startup incubator. We focus or we work with early stage startups, usually pre-revenue, and we focus nearly entirely on customer discovery, on understanding what the customer's needs are, depending on exactly where the startup is, where the founders are. Maybe we're looking for the question, but most of them are building solutions already. So they need to explore the value proposition, what the customers see as value creation, what the customers see as the ways that the software if that's what they're building will make their life or their work better.
Speaker 1:You and the team are taking a similar but different approach. In my estimation, a lot of us. In a lot of these conversations there's been a conversation around searching for the problem. So can you tell me more about searching for a problem. What is most of us? Most of us don't operate that way. Right, most of us are thinking about value creation in terms of solving a problem, but there's a there's a different language going on here. There's a different way of talking about it here, with the research team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a really good question and I think the simplest way I could describe it is in medicine or in healthcare, doctors treat symptoms right If you have a headache, take two aspirins.
Speaker 2:If you have back pain, maybe take two Advil, but they address kind of the symptom and they don't look at kind of what's the not always I'm not trying to label clinicians, but they don't always look at the underlying cause.
Speaker 2:And there's a new type of medicine called functional medicine, which attempts to really understand what's going on in our bodies that causes that pain, that discomfort, fatigue and all of that.
Speaker 2:So with that kind of analogy I think that's when you speak to owners or project team members you'll hear all of us, including me, complain oh, things take too long, they cost too much, the quality is not good, but why? And you have to ask someone or all of us why several times before you really understand what is the contributing factor to what is causing the cost overruns, the overscheduling, the lack of quality and the unhappiness that I think a lot of us in the industry really feel. So what the research is attempting to do is to ask all of these whys so that we can better understand what's causing the problems that we're facing Because, ultimately, we all want to do a good job. I don't think anyone wakes up and says I don't want to do a good job today. We all want to do a good job, but we're all thrown curve balls that we don't always hit the ball when it's true.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, it reminds me. For those of you that are out there that are familiar with Six Sigma, I don't know if this was the origin. I know it gets tossed around a lot, but the five whys, yeah, origin, um, I know it gets tossed around a lot, but the five whys, yeah, you, you peel the onion by asking why five times. And and you know, if you're listening to this and you have a two-year-old, it's different. A two-year-old is asking why all the time? Um, but this, this is uh, for exploratory purposes.
Speaker 2:a two-year-old has 20, whys not six?
Speaker 1:This is true, this is true, 20 questions to another level.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you've mentioned owners a few times. Yeah, you've. You know, we've talked about the five whys. Looking for the actual problems, right, looking for you know, similar to the clinicians that are practicing functional medicine. How are you so you're coming at this through the lens of an architect, frank as an engineer, and so on and so forth. As we go through the research team, who will you be talking to, and is there a particular bent or a particular direction, um, that you're exploring as you talk to these folks?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um, not surprisingly, I'm going to be talking to architects, uh, along with engineers and building owners. So the key thing when KP came up with this idea and notion to start doing the research is we want to make sure whoever we are talking with can feel heard and understood. So I hope I'm in the best position to understand architects Frank is probably in the best position to understand architects. Frank is probably in the best position and understand engineers David on the construction side and then, of course, ted on the building product manufacturing side and one thing we are doing is we have, I would call it, a flow of questions that is not standard but it's common in terms of how we're asking the questions. So we have a methodology that we follow, but the questions themselves are not scripted and the interview is really driven on what the person we're talking with both is comfortable talking about and what they offer problems and, more importantly, how they address them, because that's where we get kind of these nuggets of ideas to explore more.
Speaker 1:So, as you go through this, what do you I mean? I know you said you're you're searching for the problem. I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of how to phrase this next question, because there's another question down the line that I want to ask, that I don't want to step on its toes at the moment, but as you're going through and having these conversations with architects and other I would call them collaborators in the world of architecture, the people that architects would normally collaborate with, sure, the people that you're that architects would normally collaborate with um, what do you expect to learn from all of these people that you're that you're going to be talking to? And I know you've already started? The process is underway. We've been teasing this out. There's a press release as we're recording this. There's a press release that came out about the integrated owners forum on Tuesday of this week, I believe. So this is this is not brand new, right out of the gate, but what?
Speaker 2:do you?
Speaker 1:what do you expect to learn?
Speaker 2:I think, simply, every interview is a data point and everyone we talk with is going to share their data point and some of those data points are going to congregate and some of those data points are going to tell a story.
Speaker 2:I think it's too early, at least for me. Maybe my co-researchers have a better sense on what story we're seeing, but we don't know what story is being crafted yet, and the idea is to keep on asking questions until we have enough data points on whatever problems the individuals that we're talking with and seeing tell us so we could more clearly articulate that. We spoke with 200 people. Now I'm making this up. We spoke with 200 people and 85% of them said these were the challenges that they faced in designing and constructing projects. It may not be that high, it may be higher, we don't know. We are doing a really good job trying to both speak to the different collaborators, as you call them I like that term and at different levels, because the executive level has one perspective and then the, what I would call the project doer has a very different but, you know, very meaningful perspective and and we want to see how they all align and the story that they tell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one of the questions that's come up. So, so I'm also introducing the members of the research team, uh, into our mastermind groups. One, because a lot of the experience, um from you and David and Ted and Frank and hope, et cetera, um, the experience that you have uh aligns, or compliments at least a lot of the, with the, with a lot of the conversations that we're having in those groups the innovation leaders, the construction tech leaders. So I believe that you'll all be able to add value to those conversations and, especially, once you start to develop findings, you know you can come in. Hey, you know, this is what we learned this week right there. There can be those kinds of conversations, um, but also these are people that that you're going to want to talk to. These are people that you're going to want to interview. Um, and you and David were in. Uh, let me give, I spent about half my week in in mastermind groups, so I have to remember the time and place you and David were in one of our innovation leaders.
Speaker 2:I think it was the Western leaders group. That's what I remember on the calendar invite yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, you're right. It was the Western innovation leaders mastermind group, and one of the questions that has come up in these conversations, the mastermind groups, regarding the research, has been are there specific I'll call them verticals in terms of project types healthcare, your background, data centers, you know, whatever all the things are. So you have a background in healthcare architecture. Are you going to focus mainly on healthcare or are you going to look at other project types as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm looking at all project types. Okay, so David and Frank also have backgrounds in healthcare and actually, in talking with David, we worked on the same project when he was living in San Francisco or the Bay Area, so we all kind of overlap our field of knowledge. I might have the most healthcare experience, but it doesn't mean that I couldn't understand what someone who was talking about pharma or science and technology or education would be saying. So we're all kind of speaking to. The key point is to make sure that whoever we interview is heard and understood. So and we do, while we're doing the interview, kind of validate what we're hearing so that their messages are, you know, captured the way they want.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, and I think it's going to be interesting to see where, where all this data that you're collecting, where it all coalesces and you know I think anybody that's that's been around this industry for any amount of time understands well. You know a healthcare project is different than a um than a museum project, which is different than a manufacturing facility project. But there are some definite uh intersections in the processes and the tools and um, you know even, uh even, the way that um we bid, build. You know approach, project delivery, things like that.
Speaker 1:So I think it's going to be interesting to see how it all coalesces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So you seem a little agnostic in terms of maybe not a little agnostic, and I think this is a healthy thing, this is not criticism at all. You seem agnostic in terms of of the information that's going to come out of these interviews. Um, you're you're looking to make sure that, uh, everybody that you talk to is heard and validated. You're looking to get a large sample set and, as I say that that reminds me I don't want to forget this there is on the KP ReadyCo website so kpreadyco slash IOF the integrated owners forum page on the website. There's more information there. We're going to have our one-day mastermind event in Atlanta on May 20th, where many owners will gather there and, in some sense, the IOF or the Integrated Owners Forum will be rolled out there, so there's an opportunity for people to come and connect there. And also, you know, as, as you're talking about this and you mentioned 200, 200 interviews, I know, I know there are big goals because you want a statistically significant sample size, which is a big lift. Right, we were talking about this before, before we hit record any getting getting any response to anything in mass numbers is a big lift. So I would encourage everyone one for everything that that Zig and I are talking about mastermind groups, incubators, integrated owners forum, one day mastermind event, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:Anything that we're mentioning that needs a link. Our production team will put the links in the show notes below. So, whether you're listening to a podcast, just go to wherever it is that you consume that content. If you're watching this on YouTube, go to the show notes in YouTube and you'll find the links to everything that we're talking about. I would also encourage you.
Speaker 1:Normally, when I'm here with KP and we're unpacking one of his LinkedIn posts, I say you know you should follow KP. He's maxed out his connection count on LinkedIn. Zig and I are a little bit more accessible so you could reach out and connect with us on LinkedIn. That might be a great way for you to communicate with us, and then we can also point you in the direction to find the information or do whatever it is that you need to do to find the information or do whatever it is that you need to do. But, having said all of that, I'd encourage you, if you're interested in this, connect with Zig, connect with David and Frank and Ted and Hope, because they want to have as many conversations. We've got big goals. Like I said, there are big goals in terms of the number of conversations, the depth of the research, the breadth of the research, certainly, but you're talking about 200. Is there anything else that people need to know in terms of the best way to get involved with the project?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, jeff, exactly as you're saying, reach out to us. Hopefully we could put our calendar links. As you're saying, reach out to us. Hopefully we could put our calendar links in the YouTube video showing of the recording and schedule time. We'd love to hear your thoughts and your opinion matters, and I've worked on a lot of large project teams and some of the best ideas come back of the room that will share something that hasn't been heard before and I think it's really important. I think oftentimes the leaders get to share what they think and then everyone does it as all good leaders would want it, as as all good leaders would want. Um, however, what we're trying to do the research on is getting a pulse on the industry and really understand what's driving that pulse so that we can best understand how to deal with it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this we're going to come back in a couple months. I'm going to do this with, I'm going to make another round with all of, uh, all the research team and I'm going to ask you how it's going. Basically, in a couple months.
Speaker 1:You'll have a lot of interviews under your belt at that point. So right now, I want a hot take. What do you expect? What's one thing that you expect to hear, uh, as you're doing your interviews and then we'll test it in a couple of months when we come back and we do the follow up and also understanding that that you're putting biases aside and expectations aside and all of those things you're keeping, keeping an open mind and in a curious mind as part of this process. But what's one thing that you expect to hear as you're going through and doing all of this research?
Speaker 2:I think we are going to hear that many people feel that the impact that buildings have on the built environment is much more significant than what's really understood. And what I'm trying to get at is A lot of us are just focused on the design and the construction. But you know, I'll go back to the Winston Churchill saying we shape our buildings and buildings shape us, and that is really very true. And my takeaway is that we are going to validate what Winston Churchill so eloquently said many, probably 80 years ago, whatever it was when he said it.
Speaker 1:Well, and there you have it, zig, just let the cat out of the bag. Let the cat out of the bag. In our follow-up interview, where we find out how things are going, we were going to have winston churchill as a special guest. So, um, as a surprise guest, it won't be a surprise now, or maybe it will be a surprise if winston churchill shows up at our follow-up up interview do you have the way back machine behind them?
Speaker 1:I do I absolutely do, okay, as he's behind that door right there, um, as the black helicopter circle my house, the uh, um, as, as our listeners have been following along here to the conversation, not only, uh, the conversation between you and me and um, but with Frank and David and Ted and Hope, I know by now, and those of you that are familiar with any sort of video or podcast production, you know that we record these, they get produced, they get published at some point in the future. So, by the time you're hearing this, this project is underway, well, underway at this point, and you've probably been following along. So, zig, for someone that has been, maybe this is even the first time they're hearing of it. Maybe they jumped in right here and they said Zig Rubel, I want to, I want to hear what he has to say.
Speaker 1:Um, what should our listeners be paying attention to and what? What should they be uh, hoping to take away as they follow along with the process, um of of uh the research process, because you guys are publishing, uh, the team is publishing on the circle network, on on our uh, the the research process, because you guys are publishing, uh, the team is publishing on the circle network, on on our uh, we call it the catalyst network. You guys are publishing on LinkedIn as you go, you know as uh, articles of interest things, things that you're writing, similar to the way KP or I do on on LinkedIn. You're publishing things. Um, so, for those that are listening, what should they be watching for as they follow along?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So we're being tasked to publish one article a week on the Circle community about the research dialogue. So the one for this week was the concern about design, automation and licensure and the fears around that. The week before was on what someone that I was interviewing called the yeah butters, which I thought that was funny. So we are bringing to the circle environment what we're learning day to day so that all of you can get a granular view of what we're hearing. What we're hearing, however, it's not going to be until we get enough data points that we could start telling a story. Can that story might first come out on circles? I don't know yet, but I'm sure we're going to start sharing things as soon as we feel confident that it's real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, as I said before, um, if, if you, if you just heard Zig and me mention the circle community or the catalyst network, those are the same things and you go. What?
Speaker 2:the heck is that.
Speaker 1:Just go to the show notes and there'll be a link there. That's our own um, our own platform, our own community. You know, call it our own LinkedIn or our own Facebook or whatever, but the link to that will be in the show notes as well. The link to all of these things will be in the show notes so you can. We'll make it as easy as possible for you to to get there and to join the conversation over there.
Speaker 2:And anyone. Anyone could comment on any of the posts that um agrees with or doesn't agree with what we're saying.
Speaker 1:So it's a way to participate and and add their opinion and what we're we're sharing yeah, I'm glad you said that, because I I have neglected to mention this so far in our conversation. I try to do this every time when, whether it's this podcast, or it's KP and me, or or one of our mastermind members and me, or Frank Lazaro, he and I do a uh uh, ai and AEC version of the KP unpacked podcast every week as well. Um, it may be easiest to do this in the podcast, in the show version of this. It may be easiest to go over to YouTube, um, but I, I invite, I implore you, the listener, the watcher, to go to those watch, listen, comment, question, suggest topics, challenge, do all of those things. We're watching the comment sections, because it's no different than customer discovery, it's no different than the research that the team is doing here. We want to be able to bring the most relevant information that we possibly can to you and we can speculate about those things. We do speculate about those things, but a lot, of, a lot of our topics, a lot of our um uh episodes come from things that we've heard in mastermind groups and advisory work and places like that, and your comments, your questions, your challenges, et cetera, in these places circle or YouTube or anywhere else it just. It extends that process. It gives us a better idea of how we can better serve you and bring value to you. So I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 1:Zig Sure, thank you for joining me for this conversation. I'm excited about what the research team is doing. I'm excited about the team itself, but I'm excited about how the research team is doing. I'm excited about the team itself, but I'm excited about how the team dovetails so well with this project. That is not by coincidence, by the way. But thank you for a great conversation and I'm looking forward to coming back with Winston Churchill and revisiting this conversation in a couple of months, sounds like a plan and to you, our listeners out there with Winston Churchill and revisiting this conversation in a couple of months Sounds like a plan and to you, our listeners out there.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us for another episode of KP Unpacked. As we're recording this, it's Thursday, friday I do a lot of recording with KP and Frank and others. So, as always, we'll be back again next week with another edition, another episode of KP unpacked, and, um, we appreciate you. We appreciate you listening or watching, however you consume this content. Again, let us know what you think and, um, who knows, maybe your question or comment will become a topic on a future episode. So we'll be back again next week with another episode of KP Impact.
Speaker 1:Keep an eye out, keep track of what this research team is doing, because I think it's important work here in the AEC world, certainly, but more broadly, as we're able to impact the built environment. So you've been listening to or watching KP Impact. This is where the biggest ideas in AEC and AI and innovation they all collide right here on this podcast. It's powered by KP ReadyCo and we break down the trends, the technology, the discussions and the strategies that are shaping the built environment. That's where you work, that's where you live, it's where you worship, it's where you play, it's where you do your rock climbing or your yoga classes. It's where you do everything. So we're here looking at the things that shape the built environment and beyond. Thanks for joining us, everybody. We'll be back again next week. Thanks, zig.
Speaker 2:All right, thanks, jeff.